Comments on: Does Mercury Cause Autism? http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2008/01/27/does-mercury-cause-autism/ Self-Experimentation, Scientific Method, the Shangri-La Diet, etc. Tue, 16 Mar 2010 07:17:53 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.7 by: Agerserve http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2008/01/27/does-mercury-cause-autism/#comment-229951 Thu, 23 Oct 2008 16:32:23 +0000 http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2008/01/27/does-mercury-cause-autism/#comment-229951 There was this guy see. He wasn't very bright and he reached his adult life without ever having learned "the facts". Somehow, it gets to be his wedding day. While he is walking down the isle, his father tugs his sleeve and says, "Son, when you get to the hotel room...Call me" Hours later he gets to the hotel room with his beautiful blushing bride and he calls his father, "Dad, we are the hotel, what do I do?" "O.K. Son, listen up, take off your clothes and get in the bed, then she should take off her clothes and get in the bed, if not help her. Then either way, ah, call me" A few moments later... "Dad we took off our clothes and we are in the bed, what do I do?" O.K. Son, listen up. Move real close to her and she should move real close to you, and then... Ah, call me." A few moments later... "DAD! WE TOOK OFF OUR CLOTHES, GOT IN THE BED AND MOVED REAL CLOSE, WHAT DO I DO???" "O.K. Son, Listen up, this is the most important part. Stick the long part of your body into the place where she goes to the bathroom." A few moments later... "Dad, I've got my foot in the toilet, what do I do?" There was this guy see.
He wasn’t very bright and he reached his adult life without ever having learned “the facts”.
Somehow, it gets to be his wedding day.
While he is walking down the isle, his father tugs his sleeve and says,

“Son, when you get to the hotel room…Call me”

Hours later he gets to the hotel room with his beautiful blushing bride and he calls his father,

“Dad, we are the hotel, what do I do?”

“O.K. Son, listen up, take off your clothes and get in the bed, then she should take off her clothes and get in the bed, if not help her. Then either way, ah, call me”

A few moments later…

“Dad we took off our clothes and we are in the bed, what do I do?”

O.K. Son, listen up. Move real close to her and she should move real close to you, and then… Ah, call me.”

A few moments later…

“DAD! WE TOOK OFF OUR CLOTHES, GOT IN THE BED AND MOVED REAL CLOSE, WHAT DO I DO???”

“O.K. Son, Listen up, this is the most important part. Stick the long part of your body into the place where she goes to the bathroom.”

A few moments later…

“Dad, I’ve got my foot in the toilet, what do I do?”

]]> by: Ashley http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2008/01/27/does-mercury-cause-autism/#comment-142737 Tue, 25 Mar 2008 02:54:48 +0000 http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2008/01/27/does-mercury-cause-autism/#comment-142737 Hi, I'm a student at a college in New England majoring in Psychology. For my Research Methods class I need to do a study and I chose to do Mercury causing Autism. I have a few questions that I would be very greatful if anyone would answer them and maybe give me an idea of how you feel about the subject. Thank you for taking the time. 1. Do you personally know anyone that has Autism? 2. Do you know a lot of information about Autism? Would you consider yourself an expert? 3. Do you believe mercury causes Autism? 4. Do you believe that thimerosal has made Autism increase? 5. Why do you think that the rate of Autism is at 1 out of 150 children? 6. Why do you believe that that number varies from state to state? Is it the environment? The mercury in the environment? 7. Do you believe that testing childrens’ hair is an accurate test of mercury causing Autism? Hi,
I’m a student at a college in New England majoring in Psychology. For my Research Methods class I need to do a study and I chose to do Mercury causing Autism. I have a few questions that I would be very greatful if anyone would answer them and maybe give me an idea of how you feel about the subject. Thank you for taking the time.

1. Do you personally know anyone that has Autism?
2. Do you know a lot of information about Autism? Would you consider yourself an expert?
3. Do you believe mercury causes Autism?
4. Do you believe that thimerosal has made Autism increase?
5. Why do you think that the rate of Autism is at 1 out of 150 children?
6. Why do you believe that that number varies from state to state?
Is it the environment?
The mercury in the environment?
7. Do you believe that testing childrens’ hair is an accurate test of mercury causing Autism?

]]> by: seth http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2008/01/27/does-mercury-cause-autism/#comment-125256 Sat, 16 Feb 2008 13:30:44 +0000 http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2008/01/27/does-mercury-cause-autism/#comment-125256 The article by DeSoto and Hitlan is here: Journal of Child Neurology, Vol. 22, No. 11, 1308-1311 (2007) The article by DeSoto and Hitlan is here:

Journal of Child Neurology, Vol. 22, No. 11, 1308-1311 (2007)

]]> by: B Campaigne http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2008/01/27/does-mercury-cause-autism/#comment-125189 Sat, 16 Feb 2008 10:58:57 +0000 http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2008/01/27/does-mercury-cause-autism/#comment-125189 Blood Levels of Mercury Are Related to Diagnosis of Autism: A Reanalysis of an Important Data Set M. Catherine DeSoto, PhD Department of Psychology, University of Northern Iowa, Cedar Falls, Iowa, cathy.desoto@uni.edu Robert T. Hitlan, PhD Department of Psychology, University of Northern Iowa, Cedar Falls, Iowa The question of what is leading to the apparent increase in autism is of great importance. Like the link between aspirin and heart attack, even a small effect can have major health implications. If there is any link between autism and mercury, it is absolutely crucial that the first reports of the question are not falsely stating that no link occurs. We have reanalyzed the data set originally reported by Ip et al. in 2004 and have found that the original p value was in error and that a significant relation does exist between the blood levels of mercury and diagnosis of an autism spectrum disorder. Moreover, the hair sample analysis results offer some support for the idea that persons with autism may be less efficient and more variable at eliminating mercury from the blood. Blood Levels of Mercury Are Related to Diagnosis of Autism: A Reanalysis of an Important Data Set

M. Catherine DeSoto, PhD
Department of Psychology, University of Northern Iowa, Cedar Falls, Iowa, cathy.desoto@uni.edu

Robert T. Hitlan, PhD

Department of Psychology, University of Northern Iowa, Cedar Falls, Iowa

The question of what is leading to the apparent increase in autism is of great importance. Like the link between aspirin and heart attack, even a small effect can have major health implications. If there is any link between autism and mercury, it is absolutely crucial that the first reports of the question are not falsely stating that no link occurs. We have reanalyzed the data set originally reported by Ip et al. in 2004 and have found that the original p value was in error and that a significant relation does exist between the blood levels of mercury and diagnosis of an autism spectrum disorder. Moreover, the hair sample analysis results offer some support for the idea that persons with autism may be less efficient and more variable at eliminating mercury from the blood.

]]> by: Autism News Beat http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2008/01/27/does-mercury-cause-autism/#comment-115853 Mon, 04 Feb 2008 02:44:48 +0000 http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2008/01/27/does-mercury-cause-autism/#comment-115853 There were a few quarters in late 2004 and early 2005 when the Calif. numbers seemed to trend downwards, but it didn't last. Over the longer term, case loads are not going down. Figure 3 in the Geier's non-peer reviewed article tracks CDDS numbers. Look at the data point for the third quarter of 2002. It's a huge out-lier, due to a programming error that was discovered in July 2002, in addition to changes to the reporting system effected in the same month, that added a large number of clients that had previously gone unrecorded. The hugely inflated number and subsequent "decline" is an anomaly that the Geiers passed off as real. A legitimate journal would have caught the deception. The Geiers presented the data point like any other. It is inconceivable that any honest, skeptical researcher could look at that data and not wonder about the outlier. The answer is readily available on the CDDS website. It is obvious that the Geiers deliberately used skewed data to further their agenda. That's not science. There were a few quarters in late 2004 and early 2005 when the Calif. numbers seemed to trend downwards, but it didn’t last. Over the longer term, case loads are not going down. Figure 3 in the Geier’s non-peer reviewed article tracks CDDS numbers. Look at the data point for the third quarter of 2002. It’s a huge out-lier, due to a programming error that was discovered in July 2002, in addition to changes to the reporting system effected in the same month, that added a large number of clients that had previously gone unrecorded. The hugely inflated number and subsequent “decline” is an anomaly that the Geiers passed off as real. A legitimate journal would have caught the deception.

The Geiers presented the data point like any other. It is inconceivable that any honest, skeptical researcher could look at that data and not wonder about the outlier. The answer is readily available on the CDDS website.
It is obvious that the Geiers deliberately used skewed data to further their agenda. That’s not science.

]]> by: seth http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2008/01/27/does-mercury-cause-autism/#comment-115784 Sun, 03 Feb 2008 23:50:14 +0000 http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2008/01/27/does-mercury-cause-autism/#comment-115784 Kev & Autism News Beat, Do you have an alternative explanation for the very clear declines in autism rates shown in the JPANDS paper? Kev & Autism News Beat,

Do you have an alternative explanation for the very clear declines in autism rates shown in the JPANDS paper?

]]> by: Autism News Beat http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2008/01/27/does-mercury-cause-autism/#comment-115601 Sun, 03 Feb 2008 17:50:20 +0000 http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2008/01/27/does-mercury-cause-autism/#comment-115601 Kev's right - JPANDS gives a bad name to junk science. A recent paper (Gundacker et al , 2007) shows that genuine poor Hg excretors have elevated hair mercury levels. Hair reflects blood mercury level, so if you can't excrete it, the mercury builds up in the blood and the hair. Hair has high levels of cysteine (a sulfur-containing amino acid), that draws out and retains blood mercury. That's why we use hair mercury levels to track long term exposure. But hair also attracts and hold on to environmental mercury, which makes hair mercury levels in urban environments unreliable. Kev’s right - JPANDS gives a bad name to junk science.

A recent paper (Gundacker et al , 2007) shows that genuine poor Hg excretors have elevated hair mercury levels. Hair reflects blood mercury level, so if you can’t excrete it, the mercury builds up in the blood and the hair.

Hair has high levels of cysteine (a sulfur-containing amino acid), that draws out and retains blood mercury. That’s why we use hair mercury levels to track long term exposure. But hair also attracts and hold on to environmental mercury, which makes hair mercury levels in urban environments unreliable.

]]> by: Kev http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2008/01/27/does-mercury-cause-autism/#comment-115586 Sun, 03 Feb 2008 17:19:18 +0000 http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2008/01/27/does-mercury-cause-autism/#comment-115586 If you're relying on JPANDS papers for good science then I understand why you are having a problem. Good luck, but don't expect people not to take issue with you when you express your dissatisfaction with their criticism of your credulousness. If you’re relying on JPANDS papers for good science then I understand why you are having a problem. Good luck, but don’t expect people not to take issue with you when you express your dissatisfaction with their criticism of your credulousness.

]]> by: Charles http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2008/01/27/does-mercury-cause-autism/#comment-115560 Sun, 03 Feb 2008 16:09:34 +0000 http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2008/01/27/does-mercury-cause-autism/#comment-115560 Seth: Thanks for the .pdf. Interesting stuff. And I think your excerpt above, "...but it is my persona; favorite," perfectly illustrates why people might be generally skeptical. I'm no longer shocked when I read various scientific studies in which the conclusions aren't at all supported by the data because it happens so often. Seth: Thanks for the .pdf. Interesting stuff.

And I think your excerpt above, “…but it is my persona; favorite,” perfectly illustrates why people might be generally skeptical. I’m no longer shocked when I read various scientific studies in which the conclusions aren’t at all supported by the data because it happens so often.

]]> by: seth http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2008/01/27/does-mercury-cause-autism/#comment-115512 Sun, 03 Feb 2008 13:31:57 +0000 http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2008/01/27/does-mercury-cause-autism/#comment-115512 Charles, "I haven't been able to find a way around that argument." I suggest you look at http://www.jpands.org/vol11no1/geier.pdf which shows that the autism rate HAS started to fall, exactly when you would expect from the mercury/autism hypothesis. Kev, Thanks for the links. I read the comments of Autism Diva before my post. I've now read the rest. They don't make any good points. For example, Prometheus gives three possible explanations -- explanations he or she thinks are plausible -- for the Holmes et all findings. Here is one of them: <blockquote>The low hair mercury level is the result of a laboratory or specimen collection error that was systematically applied to only the autistic subjects. There is not enough information in the paper to address how this might have happened, but it is my personal favorite.</blockquote> With no supporting data. This is like saying "then a miracle happens" or "I just don't believe it". It isn't persuasive. Charles,

“I haven’t been able to find a way around that argument.” I suggest you look at

http://www.jpands.org/vol11no1/geier.pdf

which shows that the autism rate HAS started to fall, exactly when you would expect from the mercury/autism hypothesis.

Kev,

Thanks for the links. I read the comments of Autism Diva before my post. I’ve now read the rest. They don’t make any good points. For example, Prometheus gives three possible explanations — explanations he or she thinks are plausible — for the Holmes et all findings. Here is one of them:

The low hair mercury level is the result of a laboratory or specimen collection error that was systematically applied to only the autistic subjects. There is not enough information in the paper to address how this might have happened, but it is my personal favorite.

With no supporting data. This is like saying “then a miracle happens” or “I just don’t believe it”. It isn’t persuasive.

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