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	<title>Comments on: How to Be Wrong</title>
	<link>http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2008/02/06/how-to-be-wrong/</link>
	<description>Self-Experimentation, Scientific Method, the Shangri-La Diet, etc.</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 07 Sep 2008 17:08:27 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: Nathan Myers</title>
		<link>http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2008/02/06/how-to-be-wrong/#comment-153151</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 20:52:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2008/02/06/how-to-be-wrong/#comment-153151</guid>
					<description>I like this term "twisted skepticism".  It's more palatable than "dishonest skepticism".

Justifications for the habit of twisted skepticism, and for specific examples of it, always sound plausible, but are often revealed as rationalization when the same individuals fail to be similarly skeptical of ill-supported notions favored within their community.  E.g., no astronomer can remain in good standing while expressing any skepticism that 98% of the universe's mass/energy is composed of stuff of which no hint has ever been detected in a laboratory.  Likewise, none may be skeptical of the faith that gravitation must be the entire explanation for any large-scale phenomenon, or that the Doppler effect must explain all observed red shift, without exception.

Different fields of science have different levels of dogmatism; astronomy's may be higher than most, paleontology perhaps lower.

I have identified two systematically irrational behaviors common to scientists.  First, there is commonly an established theory which is inconsistent with new data.  (Perhaps no diagnostic data ever supported it; it may have originated as an honest speculation by a respected elder.)  An alternative theory is simpler,  accounts equally well for old data, but also predicts the new data.  A rational scientist would accept that there are now two theories on possibly equal footing, but this never happens.  Instead, the new theory must pass overwhelmingly more stringent tests than the old theory ever did before it may even be considered as a reasonable alternative.  Until this occurs, the contradictory data is ignored or discounted.

A related systematically irrational behavior occurs when new data conclusively falsifies a commonly-held theory (or received speculation), but no one has advanced a palatable alternative.  The typical response is to ignore, discount, or even actively suppress the new data.

Systematically irrational behavior by scientists has seemed odd enough that I have puzzled over it for years.  The best explanation I have identified is that scientists are self-selected from among the population as those who feel a need to know, and to feel that they do know.  To go from relying on one theory to considering two feels like going from knowing to only half-knowing.  To discard a theory one has lived with feels like going from knowing something to knowing nothing.  Both are, evidently, intolerable to most people who choose to become scientists.

The above does not suffice to explain the condition of astronomy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like this term &#8220;twisted skepticism&#8221;.  It&#8217;s more palatable than &#8220;dishonest skepticism&#8221;.</p>
<p>Justifications for the habit of twisted skepticism, and for specific examples of it, always sound plausible, but are often revealed as rationalization when the same individuals fail to be similarly skeptical of ill-supported notions favored within their community.  E.g., no astronomer can remain in good standing while expressing any skepticism that 98% of the universe&#8217;s mass/energy is composed of stuff of which no hint has ever been detected in a laboratory.  Likewise, none may be skeptical of the faith that gravitation must be the entire explanation for any large-scale phenomenon, or that the Doppler effect must explain all observed red shift, without exception.</p>
<p>Different fields of science have different levels of dogmatism; astronomy&#8217;s may be higher than most, paleontology perhaps lower.</p>
<p>I have identified two systematically irrational behaviors common to scientists.  First, there is commonly an established theory which is inconsistent with new data.  (Perhaps no diagnostic data ever supported it; it may have originated as an honest speculation by a respected elder.)  An alternative theory is simpler,  accounts equally well for old data, but also predicts the new data.  A rational scientist would accept that there are now two theories on possibly equal footing, but this never happens.  Instead, the new theory must pass overwhelmingly more stringent tests than the old theory ever did before it may even be considered as a reasonable alternative.  Until this occurs, the contradictory data is ignored or discounted.</p>
<p>A related systematically irrational behavior occurs when new data conclusively falsifies a commonly-held theory (or received speculation), but no one has advanced a palatable alternative.  The typical response is to ignore, discount, or even actively suppress the new data.</p>
<p>Systematically irrational behavior by scientists has seemed odd enough that I have puzzled over it for years.  The best explanation I have identified is that scientists are self-selected from among the population as those who feel a need to know, and to feel that they do know.  To go from relying on one theory to considering two feels like going from knowing to only half-knowing.  To discard a theory one has lived with feels like going from knowing something to knowing nothing.  Both are, evidently, intolerable to most people who choose to become scientists.</p>
<p>The above does not suffice to explain the condition of astronomy.
</p>
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		<title>by: Gustavo Lacerda</title>
		<link>http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2008/02/06/how-to-be-wrong/#comment-148804</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Apr 2008 19:34:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2008/02/06/how-to-be-wrong/#comment-148804</guid>
					<description>Eliezer,

" though I agree that it is one of the most important ways that old-style pre-Bayesian Traditional Rationality goes astray. But the Bayesians have noticed the mistake, analyzed it mathematically, investigated it experimentally, etc. "

This has nothing to do with Bayesianism.
Spirtes, Glymour and Scheines are not Bayesians. I have no idea about Pearl.

Gustavo</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eliezer,</p>
<p>&#8221; though I agree that it is one of the most important ways that old-style pre-Bayesian Traditional Rationality goes astray. But the Bayesians have noticed the mistake, analyzed it mathematically, investigated it experimentally, etc. &#8221;</p>
<p>This has nothing to do with Bayesianism.<br />
Spirtes, Glymour and Scheines are not Bayesians. I have no idea about Pearl.</p>
<p>Gustavo
</p>
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		<title>by: Charlie (Colorado)</title>
		<link>http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2008/02/06/how-to-be-wrong/#comment-122602</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Feb 2008 14:53:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2008/02/06/how-to-be-wrong/#comment-122602</guid>
					<description>My grandfather used to tell me "If the bird book and the bird disagree, believe the bird."

This is a lesson I have to teach new baby engineers pretty well every year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My grandfather used to tell me &#8220;If the bird book and the bird disagree, believe the bird.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is a lesson I have to teach new baby engineers pretty well every year.
</p>
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		<title>by: seth</title>
		<link>http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2008/02/06/how-to-be-wrong/#comment-121490</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Feb 2008 08:16:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2008/02/06/how-to-be-wrong/#comment-121490</guid>
					<description>Thanks for the explanation, James. As I say in a later post, 

http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2008/02/10/how-to-be-wrong-continued/

I see the same bias in areas much different than science. Therefore I don't think it is caused by science-specific things such as publication bias or press coverage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the explanation, James. As I say in a later post, </p>
<p><a href="http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2008/02/10/how-to-be-wrong-continued/" rel="nofollow">http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2008/02/10/how-to-be-wrong-continued/</a></p>
<p>I see the same bias in areas much different than science. Therefore I don&#8217;t think it is caused by science-specific things such as publication bias or press coverage.
</p>
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		<title>by: James Annan</title>
		<link>http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2008/02/06/how-to-be-wrong/#comment-121155</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Feb 2008 23:16:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2008/02/06/how-to-be-wrong/#comment-121155</guid>
					<description>"Wrong" in that it does not represent the theory that is attributed to it. 

In climate change, we have:

Plants emitting methane (AIUI no-one knows yet where this result really came from, but no-one thought it was reasonable and several replications have contradicted it).
Oceans cooled over the last few years (now clearly understood as an artefact of measuring error due to a large number of buoys with a bias).
Ocean circulation slow-down (combination of a rather simplistic analysis and perhaps intrinsic high-frequency natural variability being larger than we thought).

These all had a *lot* of press coverage, and it was IMO entirely correct of scientists to warn against believing them too strongly.

I don't think most new data is wrong - much data is confirmatory in nature, uncontroversial and right. I think much or most new and striking data are wrong. It's basically publication bias. But these are the cases where you hear scientists commenting, precisely because they are highly talked-about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Wrong&#8221; in that it does not represent the theory that is attributed to it. </p>
<p>In climate change, we have:</p>
<p>Plants emitting methane (AIUI no-one knows yet where this result really came from, but no-one thought it was reasonable and several replications have contradicted it).<br />
Oceans cooled over the last few years (now clearly understood as an artefact of measuring error due to a large number of buoys with a bias).<br />
Ocean circulation slow-down (combination of a rather simplistic analysis and perhaps intrinsic high-frequency natural variability being larger than we thought).</p>
<p>These all had a *lot* of press coverage, and it was IMO entirely correct of scientists to warn against believing them too strongly.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think most new data is wrong - much data is confirmatory in nature, uncontroversial and right. I think much or most new and striking data are wrong. It&#8217;s basically publication bias. But these are the cases where you hear scientists commenting, precisely because they are highly talked-about.
</p>
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		<title>by: Seth&#8217;s blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; How to Be Wrong (continued)</title>
		<link>http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2008/02/06/how-to-be-wrong/#comment-120825</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Feb 2008 14:57:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2008/02/06/how-to-be-wrong/#comment-120825</guid>
					<description>[...] How to Be Wrong [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] How to Be Wrong [&#8230;]
</p>
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		<title>by: seth</title>
		<link>http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2008/02/06/how-to-be-wrong/#comment-120727</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Feb 2008 12:32:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2008/02/06/how-to-be-wrong/#comment-120727</guid>
					<description>James, I am surprised to hear that "the majority of new and striking 'results' are simply wrong." I'm not sure what you mean by "results". Theories, methods, data, conclusions drawn from data? 

I was referring to data -- that is, observations. Upon encountering new data, the reaction of the average scientist is much more about what you can't learn from it (e.g., "correlation does not imply causation") than what you can. 

You believe that most new data is "simply wrong"? Wrong in what sense? And why do you believe this?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James, I am surprised to hear that &#8220;the majority of new and striking &#8216;results&#8217; are simply wrong.&#8221; I&#8217;m not sure what you mean by &#8220;results&#8221;. Theories, methods, data, conclusions drawn from data? </p>
<p>I was referring to data &#8212; that is, observations. Upon encountering new data, the reaction of the average scientist is much more about what you can&#8217;t learn from it (e.g., &#8220;correlation does not imply causation&#8221;) than what you can. </p>
<p>You believe that most new data is &#8220;simply wrong&#8221;? Wrong in what sense? And why do you believe this?
</p>
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		<title>by: James Annan</title>
		<link>http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2008/02/06/how-to-be-wrong/#comment-120643</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Feb 2008 09:17:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2008/02/06/how-to-be-wrong/#comment-120643</guid>
					<description>IMO this conservatism is a natural and reasonable correction for the undeniable fact that the majority of new and striking "results" are simply wrong. I've noticed a significant number of these in my own field (climate research) in the last couple of years (examples available if you want), they got a lot of publicity but basically every knowledgeable scientist realised (correctly) they were probably wrong at the outset. In fact it seems to me that the professional scientists are being (approximately) Bayesian in requiring strong evidence to overcome (well-justified) prior beliefs that the "new" results seek to overturn.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IMO this conservatism is a natural and reasonable correction for the undeniable fact that the majority of new and striking &#8220;results&#8221; are simply wrong. I&#8217;ve noticed a significant number of these in my own field (climate research) in the last couple of years (examples available if you want), they got a lot of publicity but basically every knowledgeable scientist realised (correctly) they were probably wrong at the outset. In fact it seems to me that the professional scientists are being (approximately) Bayesian in requiring strong evidence to overcome (well-justified) prior beliefs that the &#8220;new&#8221; results seek to overturn.
</p>
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		<title>by: Eliezer Yudkowsky</title>
		<link>http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2008/02/06/how-to-be-wrong/#comment-120242</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Feb 2008 18:07:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2008/02/06/how-to-be-wrong/#comment-120242</guid>
					<description>Well, I've been going around for a while now saying that Bayesian probability theory tells us that there is an exactly correct update which you should make upon new evidence, neither more nor less; and even in cases where we can't calculate the math exactly, the mere fact that math exists tells us that there is a correct update which has no room in it for our whims, or for "conservatism" if you feel like being conservative.

Judea Pearl has written extensively on the correlation/causation business.  You can actually extract some damned impressive evidence off of even noninterventionist experiments, though it takes a sophisticated theory of causation to do it.

The heuristics and biases community has investigated "motivated skepticism&lt;/a&gt;".

So, no, you are not quite a lone voice in the wilderness here - though I agree that it is one of the most important ways that old-style pre-Bayesian Traditional Rationality goes astray.  But the Bayesians have noticed the mistake, analyzed it mathematically, investigated it experimentally, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I&#8217;ve been going around for a while now saying that Bayesian probability theory tells us that there is an exactly correct update which you should make upon new evidence, neither more nor less; and even in cases where we can&#8217;t calculate the math exactly, the mere fact that math exists tells us that there is a correct update which has no room in it for our whims, or for &#8220;conservatism&#8221; if you feel like being conservative.</p>
<p>Judea Pearl has written extensively on the correlation/causation business.  You can actually extract some damned impressive evidence off of even noninterventionist experiments, though it takes a sophisticated theory of causation to do it.</p>
<p>The heuristics and biases community has investigated &#8220;motivated skepticism&#8220;.</p>
<p>So, no, you are not quite a lone voice in the wilderness here - though I agree that it is one of the most important ways that old-style pre-Bayesian Traditional Rationality goes astray.  But the Bayesians have noticed the mistake, analyzed it mathematically, investigated it experimentally, etc.
</p>
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		<title>by: seth</title>
		<link>http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2008/02/06/how-to-be-wrong/#comment-119685</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2008 22:53:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2008/02/06/how-to-be-wrong/#comment-119685</guid>
					<description>"Too little belief is always preferable to too much." What if the new idea is correct?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Too little belief is always preferable to too much.&#8221; What if the new idea is correct?
</p>
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