Comments on: Not the Same Study Section: How the Truth Comes Out http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2009/01/24/not-the-same-study-section-how-the-truth-comes-out/ Self-Experimentation, Scientific Method, the Shangri-La Diet, etc. Fri, 19 Mar 2010 09:44:51 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.7 by: Seth’s blog » Blog Archive » What I’m Looking Forward to Reading http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2009/01/24/not-the-same-study-section-how-the-truth-comes-out/#comment-327705 Tue, 28 Jul 2009 16:43:28 +0000 http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2009/01/24/not-the-same-study-section-how-the-truth-comes-out/#comment-327705 [...] In September, David Owen, a staff writer at The New Yorker, will publish Green Metropolis: Why Living Smaller, Living Closer, and Driving Less are the Keys to Sustainability. Or at least that’s what the print says; the picture has a different subtitle. The book expands on this New Yorker article. Owen criticizes Michael Pollan and Amory Lovins, among others. Maybe this is an example of the insider/outsider advantage I’ve blogged about. Owen is not the New Yorker’s environmental reporter; that would be Elizabeth Kolbert. So he can say anything, criticize anybody, without worrying about his ability to write more on the same subject. He can always go back to golf. Kolbert is not so free. In any case, Owen’s book sounds better — less predictable — than Kolbert’s book on a similar subject. A TV show on the subject. Owen on bridge. [...] […] In September, David Owen, a staff writer at The New Yorker, will publish Green Metropolis: Why Living Smaller, Living Closer, and Driving Less are the Keys to Sustainability. Or at least that’s what the print says; the picture has a different subtitle. The book expands on this New Yorker article. Owen criticizes Michael Pollan and Amory Lovins, among others. Maybe this is an example of the insider/outsider advantage I’ve blogged about. Owen is not the New Yorker’s environmental reporter; that would be Elizabeth Kolbert. So he can say anything, criticize anybody, without worrying about his ability to write more on the same subject. He can always go back to golf. Kolbert is not so free. In any case, Owen’s book sounds better — less predictable — than Kolbert’s book on a similar subject. A TV show on the subject. Owen on bridge. […]

]]> by: seth http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2009/01/24/not-the-same-study-section-how-the-truth-comes-out/#comment-284020 Thu, 26 Mar 2009 15:48:04 +0000 http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2009/01/24/not-the-same-study-section-how-the-truth-comes-out/#comment-284020 Thanks, Alexis! Very interesting. Thanks, Alexis! Very interesting.

]]> by: Alexis Gallagher http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2009/01/24/not-the-same-study-section-how-the-truth-comes-out/#comment-283561 Wed, 25 Mar 2009 20:03:33 +0000 http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2009/01/24/not-the-same-study-section-how-the-truth-comes-out/#comment-283561 I thought you would be interested to note that the March25th article on Freeman Dyson in the NY Times magazine refers to him as an "outsider-insider", with exactly the sense used here. The meme is spreading! (Or the coincidence is.) I thought you would be interested to note that the March25th article on Freeman Dyson in the NY Times magazine refers to him as an “outsider-insider”, with exactly the sense used here.

The meme is spreading!

(Or the coincidence is.)

]]> by: Alexis Gallagher http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2009/01/24/not-the-same-study-section-how-the-truth-comes-out/#comment-266983 Mon, 02 Feb 2009 19:31:49 +0000 http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2009/01/24/not-the-same-study-section-how-the-truth-comes-out/#comment-266983 I agree this the idea of an insider/outsider is very powerful. Why is it not better appreciated? At least one reason is that there's no good word for it. The closest word is probably "whistleblower", but that is crucially different in its focus on ingroup malfeasance rather than groupthink or peer pressure. (I'd say much journalism on groups shares this misplaced focus, looking for conspiracies rather than folly.) "Insider/outsider" is pretty good coinage. But can we do better? I agree this the idea of an insider/outsider is very powerful. Why is it not better appreciated?

At least one reason is that there’s no good word for it. The closest word is probably “whistleblower”, but that is crucially different in its focus on ingroup malfeasance rather than groupthink or peer pressure. (I’d say much journalism on groups shares this misplaced focus, looking for conspiracies rather than folly.)

“Insider/outsider” is pretty good coinage. But can we do better?

]]> by: Duncan http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2009/01/24/not-the-same-study-section-how-the-truth-comes-out/#comment-265576 Wed, 28 Jan 2009 23:28:48 +0000 http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2009/01/24/not-the-same-study-section-how-the-truth-comes-out/#comment-265576 'This kind of critical review paper, emphasisizing the key unsolved problems, is common in quantum gravity, cosmology, and, I suspect, most other fields of science. Because this was not being done by any of the leaders of string theory, it was left to someone like me, <b>as a quasi "insider" who had the technical knowledge but not the sociological commitment</b> [bold mine], to take on that responsibility. And I had done so because of my own interest in string theory, which I was working on almost exclusively at the time. Nevertheless, some string theorists regarded this as a hostile act.' -- Lee Smolin, from the <i>How Do You Fight Sociology?</i> chapter of his recent book <i>The Trouble With Physics</i>. ‘This kind of critical review paper, emphasisizing the key unsolved problems, is common in quantum gravity, cosmology, and, I suspect, most other fields of science. Because this was not being done by any of the leaders of string theory, it was left to someone like me, as a quasi “insider” who had the technical knowledge but not the sociological commitment [bold mine], to take on that responsibility. And I had done so because of my own interest in string theory, which I was working on almost exclusively at the time. Nevertheless, some string theorists regarded this as a hostile act.’
— Lee Smolin, from the How Do You Fight Sociology? chapter of his recent book The Trouble With Physics.

]]> by: Stephen M (Ethesis) http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2009/01/24/not-the-same-study-section-how-the-truth-comes-out/#comment-265083 Wed, 28 Jan 2009 05:04:38 +0000 http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2009/01/24/not-the-same-study-section-how-the-truth-comes-out/#comment-265083 I think you've hit something very profound with this post. I think you’ve hit something very profound with this post.

]]> by: mike kenny http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2009/01/24/not-the-same-study-section-how-the-truth-comes-out/#comment-263736 Sat, 24 Jan 2009 22:34:23 +0000 http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2009/01/24/not-the-same-study-section-how-the-truth-comes-out/#comment-263736 nietzsche too, left university and wrote from the outside. wittgenstein wrote his tractatus while a soldier in world war i, iirc. should we get rid of peer-reviewed journals? put your stuff up on the web and let people criticize it that way, publicly. it seems a more rapid and multi-perspectival approach. not to discount experts--they can say whatever they would say as referees. does blogging damage journals since academics seem to be putting their ideas on the web anyway? 'oh, i read your paper, but you pretty much said everything on the web before hand.' nietzsche too, left university and wrote from the outside. wittgenstein wrote his tractatus while a soldier in world war i, iirc.

should we get rid of peer-reviewed journals? put your stuff up on the web and let people criticize it that way, publicly. it seems a more rapid and multi-perspectival approach. not to discount experts–they can say whatever they would say as referees.

does blogging damage journals since academics seem to be putting their ideas on the web anyway? ‘oh, i read your paper, but you pretty much said everything on the web before hand.’

]]> by: DA http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2009/01/24/not-the-same-study-section-how-the-truth-comes-out/#comment-263699 Sat, 24 Jan 2009 19:46:34 +0000 http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2009/01/24/not-the-same-study-section-how-the-truth-comes-out/#comment-263699 Jane Jacobs embodied this insider/outsider status. One could argue that Obama is an insider/outsider, too, though only time will tell how that influences his presidency. Jane Jacobs embodied this insider/outsider status. One could argue that Obama is an insider/outsider, too, though only time will tell how that influences his presidency.

]]> by: Nadav Manham http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2009/01/24/not-the-same-study-section-how-the-truth-comes-out/#comment-263684 Sat, 24 Jan 2009 18:30:06 +0000 http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2009/01/24/not-the-same-study-section-how-the-truth-comes-out/#comment-263684 I've always been struck at how many of the world's great skeptics and iconoclasts were either aristocrats (Montaigne, Russell), deliberately thrifty (Hume), or did their best work while earning a "normal" living (Einstein in the patent office, Spinoza as a lens grinder). In each case, their economic independence seems to have helped their intellectual independence. I’ve always been struck at how many of the world’s great skeptics and iconoclasts were either aristocrats (Montaigne, Russell), deliberately thrifty (Hume), or did their best work while earning a “normal” living (Einstein in the patent office, Spinoza as a lens grinder). In each case, their economic independence seems to have helped their intellectual independence.

]]> by: Tom http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2009/01/24/not-the-same-study-section-how-the-truth-comes-out/#comment-263673 Sat, 24 Jan 2009 17:30:20 +0000 http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2009/01/24/not-the-same-study-section-how-the-truth-comes-out/#comment-263673 Brilliant, brilliant post, Seth. The elephant in the room. Fantastic. Brilliant, brilliant post, Seth. The elephant in the room.

Fantastic.

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